k, another thing. God doesn't need us to go to heaven, but He desperately wants us to. why else would He make us? But because he is a just God, if we don't meet the small standards He sets for us, we don't deserve His heaven. The murderer, at the last point of his life, can truly accept God and then his past is wiped away. That could show that God had "destined him for heaven" but then why would have God allowed him to be a murderer in the first place? that can't be part of God's will, it's against His commandments. And why would God have to forgive us for sinning if He knew and "made" us sin in the first place. Free will is one of those confusing things I won't understand until God tells me, but I believe He gives us the choice to do anything at all that we want to. Luke