[b]DHfan wrote:[/b] [quote][b]Chantillon wrote:[/b] [quote]Anyway you slice or dice it,there is no evidence scripture or after in writings fathers of the church that scriptures[bible] is the only authority,its combination of both of scripture/oral tradition and apostalic succession having authority to interprete.[/quote] [b]again, of course there is no evidence in scripture that the Bible is the only authority becuase the Bible hadnt been compiled yet.... and they didnt know that there was going to be one... it was mostly letters and such[/b] Well that defeats the idea Sola Scpitura,since it isn't commanded in the bible.It was an invention of men and popularised by Martin Luther.It isn't biblical.Whats biblical is that scriptures itself is an authority but no where does say its the sole authority. You look at the history of Israel,Judges,Kings,Priests,Prophets were all authorities on the word of God,the lay people had to listen to what they had to say. [b]But, we can gather from scripture that the Holy Spirit and Jesus should be our only resources for spiritual authority.... this is where we have a bit of a problem in this debate here.... i believe that we need to judge everything that these "authorities" that we have placed in the church by the Bible because that is the most direct look into the will and mind of God that we can possibly have.... again, I believe that humans make mistakes and I would not take everything that a pope or bishop or anyone says about that Bible at face value because it might not be right.... weigh it against the Bible.... and because many popes have made scriptual errors in the past, I do not follow them... and I dont believe that the idea of one person leading the religion outside of Jesus Christ is a Biblical idea[/b] I've already provided scriptural proof of all you mentioned.You haven't replied to that. And I've mentioned over and over again Christ is leader of the church.Were going around a circular debate here. I'm really tired of repeating myself.Wish people would read posts for giving rebutles. You know the church is the body of Christ,and all the parts of this body is needed for the whole body to function proparly.The head is Christ,without the head nothing works ect...As christians we all have are functions that we are called for,we couldn't all be or do the same thing and we cannot severe a part of the body,both cases the body which is the church wouldn't function proparly Again repeating myself popes are human and are sinners like the rest of us,but concerning dogma on salvation they never made any mistakes.Why that is you ask,because Christ promised the Holy Spirit and was takling to the apostles when he said do not worry what you hall do or say you will have the Holy Spirit to guide you until I return.Now Jesus hasn't returned yet ....you do math read my other posts on this.I'm not going to repeat everything.[/quote]