[b]barry wrote:[/b] [quote]Matt, our Father has used you to push me for the Truth more than you will everknow. I would have dropped the issue long before now. You and I have grown so much sence we first started discussing the issue togehter. I should thank you, Matt. You have shown yourself to be a true Brother. I praise Him for you! Any words or knowlage that are truth do not come from me and I do not seek credit or glory for it. I first started thinking along these lines on this \"test\" way back on ditty, but never could get my mind around it either. I have used many resources to compile all the info I have on this subject, including you, and am sure I will use many more since this subject seems to burn within me. [/quote] Back at you 100%, brother Barry. I remember those times, thinking I was alone until you jumped in. What Hashem lays on my heart, I cannot ignore, but I think G-d used your support to strengthen me, and give me more courage to speak what I knew to be the truth.That\'s something that I\'ll never forget. In all things, His will be done. Rand- [quote]But it (the Trinity) is not unknowable about God, any more than His omnipotence, eternity, omnipresence, or omniscience. For suggested reading, I submit to you Jonathan Edwards\' \"Treatise on the Trinity.\" It is, by far, the best understanding of the Trinity I have ever read. [/quote] Truly, I appreciate the efforts, brother. But see, the principle of that bugs me. Why should we need the treatises of man to explain something like this? Won\'t G-d give us what we need to know to do His will, and to know Him? I believe Deu 30 makes it clear that He does not want us confused, that He will give us the knowledge we need. If He is silent on a subject, we should be able to discuss it and debate it rationally, scripturally, and in love, even as the Talmud records debates between Hillel and Shammai, and also records that because these disagreements were for the sake of heaven, they endured. I just don\'t believe He is silent on this most important topic. This is a major stumblingblock, and a hindrance to our efforts to witness to our Jewish brethren, because anything which conflicts with the Sh\'ma will be instantly rejected by any practicing Jew of any affiliation. [quote]Ya know Matt, I was thinking. The Jews stared getting it all wrong when they decided they needed a man as king. Then they needed commentary on Scripture to decide what Scripture meant. Man always seeks the wisdom of man instead of the wisdom of G-d.[/quote] Ooh! I had never \"put two and two together\" like that, but yeah, I believe that\'s a great example. The tendency is still to think of G-d as afar off, when we\'re in times of trouble, and even to WANT Him a little afar off, as the Israelites did at Mt Sinai. Thustly did the practice begin of having man interpret scripture, instead of letting scripture interpret itself. I guess there wasn\'t as much as I thought to catch up on. Barry has covered most of the trinitarian points better than I could, sometimes before those points were even made, so I\'ll leave it at that.