MaddMatt, Thank you for your encouraging words! You have made me decide to start typing in Microsoft Word so maybe what I post looks better to you, Again thank you, this piece has taken me days and my back hurts from it, but let us praise our G-d for His Wisdom and Truth. \"Who rescued us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us to the Kingdom of the Son by His Love, in Whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible G-d, Firstborn of all creation, because by Him all things were created in the Heavens and upon the Earth, the visible and invisible, whether thrones or lordships or leaders or authorities: all things have been created through Him and in Him: and He was alive before all things and all things have come together in Him and He is the head of the body, of the congregation. Who was in the beginning, Firstborn from the dead, so that He would be first in all things, because it pleased the Father to have to make all the fullness dwell through Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Him, because He made peace through the blood of His cross, through Him whether they be the things upon the Earth or the things in the Heavens.\" (Colossians 1:13-10) There are a couple of text\'s written by Paul that appear to be a trump card for those who teach the preexistence of Yeshua, the foundation of trinitarian theology so to speak, expressing in some sense Messiah\'s status as Deity. One is Colossians 1:13-20. At the time of the Nicene Council, two parties, the Arians and the Athanasians, were quiet fond of using this to prove that Messiah existed as a \"personal\" being before his birth or \"incarnation\". The difference between the two were that the Arians thought he had a beginning and was the first creature G-d made, while the Athanasians thought he had no beginning and was Himself \"co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial\" with the Father. The result was the claim, as seen today by the Trinitarians, that Yeshua must been seen to be G-d just as the Father is seen as G-d. I highly doubt whether Paul had any of those ideas in mind when he wrote this letter. Let\'s look at this verse to see if that is truly what Paul was expressing. Verse 15 tells us that G-d\'s \"beloved Son\" is the \"image\" of the unseen G-d. Image - 1. A picture or some other likeness of a person or thing. 2. a person or thing that looks very similar to or exactly like someone or something else. So, of course, an image is a visual representation, a copy of the original. The very fact of using a word such as \"image\" suggests that there is a difference in identity between a copy and the original. When you look into a mirror, you see an image of yourself. You would not consider yourself to be the person in the mirror, but the person in front of the mirror. The word \"image\" establishes, by its very meaning, that Messiah is not G-d. The image is not the same as the original, and in this case the original is the one and only G-d. When Yeshua told his disciples \"Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father\" (John 14:9) it was not a claim to be the Father, but rather a claim to be like the Father. Hebrews also confirms this fact. In verse 1:3 it says he is the \"radiance of the glory, a \"representation\" of G-d\'s being, or G-d\'s nature (He is the radiance of the glory and representation of His nature). The English word \"representation\" or the Greek word it is taken from (Carakter) imply that a copy is being set forth, based on a original. The writer of Hebrews is telling us that G-d has spoken to us by a Son who is just like Him. So to say this Son is \"just like\" Him is to recognize that he is not, in fact, himself G-d, i.e., the One to whom he is now being \"likened.\" Hebrews goes on to say that, the one who is like G-d, after purging our sins by his death, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, a further distinction between the Man who is \"just like\" G-d, and the being who is G-d, Himself! Verse 15 goes on to say, Messiah is the \"firstborn of all creation.\" If the \"first\" in \"Firstborn only means precedence in time, and if \"creation\" means the original creation of Genesis 1, then the case for the Messiah\'s personal preexistence would stand. The Arians and Athanasians would have been right in their claim that Messiah existed before His birth and abandoned his former mode of existence in order to become a human being. What should be questioned here is the definition of these words in the context of Scripture as a whole. Remember, the only tool that should be use to define Scripture, is Scripture itself! The word \"Firstborn\" is prototokos in Greek. It is used a number of times in Scripture, often to designate the child born first in a family. When Esau came to receive the blessing of the firstborn from his father Isaac, he pleaded he was Isaac\'s firstborn - his prototokos (Gen. 27:32 LXX). Prototkos comes from the root word protos and can mean either first in time or first in rank, the \"firstborn\" may be used to designate one who is honored with the first or chief position, regardless of time of birth. The idea for this is seen in Exodus 4:22, where G-d commands Moses to tell Pharaoh, \"This is what (Tetragrammaton) says: Israel is my first born son...Let my son go, so he may worship me.\" Clearly here the word prototokos (LXX) has nothing to do with precedence in time, but rather in rank among the nations, as G-d viewed their relative importance. The same is true in Jeremiah 31:9 (38:9 LXX) G-d calls Ephraim his protokos (even though Ephraim\'s older brother, Manasseh, was the elder of the two). So we see in G-d\'s view, it is precedence in rank, or importance that is in view. A classic example of this use would be Psalm 89:27 (88:27 LXX), where G-d describes the promised Davidic king, the Messiah: \"I will appoint Him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.\" The position of King of Kings is a matter of appointment, not in being co-eternal, or time of birth. Clearly the usage of this word in all of Scripture points to position and rank and nothing else. It now becomes important what Paul meant by the word \"creation.\" Was Paul referring to the Genesis 1 account or what may be called a new creation, a new order? Paul goes on to define this creation as comprising all things \"all things were created in the Heavens and upon the Earth, the visible and invisible, whether thrones or lordships or leaders or authorities; all things have been created through him and in him.\" Messiah himself described the original creation as being G-d\'s work (Mark 13:19 which corresponds with Hebrews 4:4, where G-d, not Yeshua, rested from the work of creation) and suggesting that Messiah did not see himself as the creator of \"all things\" mentioned in Genesis 1. Paul, in fact, seems to give an exact description of what he means \"all things\" created. Namely, “thrones, powers, rulers, authorities.” If this is what he means, then we must ask in what sense Messiah can be called the creator of such. Just before his ascension Yeshua said \"all authority has been given to me in the Heavens and the Earth\" (Matthew 28:18). With that authority he sent his students into the world to make disciples of all the heathens and teach them to keep all things that have been commanded. Moses for told that Messiah would be a prophet like Moses himself, a human man, whose word would have the force of the law, demanding obedience (Deut. 18:15, 18, 19; Acts 3:22, 23). But what of his authority in the Heavens? Paul said when Messiah was raised from the dead and was set at G-d\'s right hand in the \"Heavenlies,\" his new position brought him a status \"far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also the one to come\" (Ephesians 1:21). Not only that but G-d placed all things under his feet\" (vs.22). Colossians 1:17 echo’s this, in saying \"and all things have come together in Him.\" Colossians 2:10 says \"who is the head of every principality and power.” G-d rewarded Yeshua\'s obedience unto death by highly exalting him and giving him a name above every name. “At the name of Yeshua every knee will be required to bow, in the Heavens and on the Earth, and every tongue confess that Yeshua is Messiah and Lord, in glory of G-d our Father” (Philippians 2:10) And by the way, the word here for Lord is ku/riov (Kurios). And the definition is, Lord / ku/riov (Kurios)- 1. He to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord. A. the possessor and disposer of a thing. 1. The owner; one who has control of the person, the master. 2. in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor. B. is a title of honor expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master. So, much to the surprise of some, this is no confession that Yeshua is G-d, but rather, their Master. These ascriptions of supreme authority to Messiah, under G-d, suggest that when Messiah came to be seated at the right hand of G-d, he, in turn, set up, or created, a new system of rulership\'s among the angelic beings as well as preparing a place of honor and service within His Father\'s household for all the faithful people, both in this age and in the age to come (John 14:2, 3). All of this is part of \"the new creation.\" It is this new creation that is the subject of Colossians 1:15-17. Verse 17 declares that Messiah is \"before all things\" - pro panton. This has been seized upon as proof of the preexistence. One thing you need to take notice of is that the verb used here is in the present tense -\"is\"- not \"was\" Paul does not tell us Messiah “was” before all things. What does before mean then? The Greek word used here — pro — has three common uses: before, in the sense of place, “in front of”; before, in the sense of time, “prior to”, and before, in the sense of preeminence, rank, advantage. The latter usage is seen in Peter 4:8, “above all things (or before all things or most important of all, it’s the same word, pro panton) having constant love among yourselves…..” Here pro has nothing to do with time or place, but stresses the fact that love is the most important virtue you can posses, it’s above all things. James 5:12 gives us another example: “Above all things, my brothers, do not swear either by Heaven or by the Earth or any other oath….” Again Scripture will define Scripture. To say that Messiah is pro panton is to say he is under G-d, the Preeminent One, the Most Important One! This fact is highlighted as we continue reading. We see him as having, in everything, “the preeminence” (KJV), “the supremacy” (NIV), “the first place” (NASB ). To bring this point home, Paul adds the personal pronoun autos to the verb proteuo, meaning that HE, Messiah himself, is being given first place in all G-d’s universe! This of coarse, echo’s another piece of Scripture. (Gen. 41:40, 41, 44) “You shall be in charge of my palace and by your command shall all my people be sustained; only by the throne shall I outrank you. Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, ‘See! I have placed you in charge of all the land of Egypt’……..Pharaoh said to Joseph, ‘I am Pharaoh. And without you no man may lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.’” This is so a picture of the relationship between G-d the Father and the Messiah, His Son. Pharaoh said to Joseph “I am,” He was like a god to Joseph’s kingship. Let’s continue reading this piece of Scripture and be fascinated at the picture being painted! Genesis 41:45 “Pharaoh called Joseph’s name Zaphenath-paneah (Which means: he who explains what is hidden, Wow!) and gave him Asenath daughter of Poti-phera.” So Pharaoh gives Joseph a new name above all names and a bride. (Just like G-d the Father gives Yeshua a new name above all names and a bride, us, and sets everything under Him and no man may do a thing without Him). Again, this is the kind of preeminence and rulership that G-d has given to His Son, to be over all other beings, typified only dimly by the history of Joseph’s own exaltation! Paul is piling it on to declare that in Messiah “all things hold together.” The Greek verb sunistemi translated “hold together” is given various definitions by the lexicographers. One suggested definition is “cohere.” All things cohere in Messiah and provide a coherent meaning to the universe. He is the reason for it all, because he is G-d’s only-begotten Son, the perfect image of the Father himself! Another definition is “to have one’s proper place.” All things in the universe have their own proper place, designed by the Creator, (Tetragrammaton), to be in perfect relationship and harmony with “the Son whom G-d loves.” Messiah being first, the head or ruler of G-d’s congregation is a common theme in the writing of Paul. Verse 18 declares that and goes on to call him arche, “beginning” (KJV, NIV, NASB ). This word also means “ruler, authority.” It emphasizes Paul’s theme of Messiah’s preeminence and supreme authority under the one true G-d. In that authority all things begin and end in Messiah. As the beginning of a “new creation” Messiah is the “first born from among the dead.” The first human being to rise from the dead into immortality and become a “sharer of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4) As prototokos he is also “chiefborn” from among the dead, because he in turn is the Lifegiver, the Prince of Life whose voice will awaken and call forth the sleeping dead from their graves (John 5:21-29; Acts 3:15). And it is by resurrection from the dead that he achieves his supreme position (v. 18: “in order that”). This means that he did not already have that position. “G-d was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (v. 19). The past tense here, combined with the immediate mention of Messiah’s reconciling work in his death on the cross (v.20), would seem to indicate that Paul has in mind the period of Messiah’s mortal lifetime. It was then that Messiah was already filled with G-d’s fullness, just as believers are called upon to seek that fullness for their own lives today (Eph. 3:19). In Messiah’s case, there was no limit to the Spirit working in him, he was totally filled with G-d’s Spirit and power throughout his earthly ministry. His initial preeminence is seen in his walking the earth as though he were G-d himself. Later, in Colossians 2:9, Paul speaks of G-d’s “fullness” again, but describes it in a special way and in the present tense. “In Messiah all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.” Since his resurrection to immortality and his being granted “all authority in heaven and earth” Messiah is exalted by his Father to the highest place in the universe, next to G-d himself, and is given the highest name (Phil. 2:9). He can be described, therefore, as possessing the fullness of the Deity. How could his preeminence be emphasized more powerfully than this? But all of this is short-circuited and spoiled by Trinitarian notions and the teaching of Messiah’s personal preexistence! If those ideas were true, he already possessed — in person — total preeminence long before he was born, before he had been obedient unto death. But, as Paul insists, it was this very obedience — and the humility from which it sprang — that was the reason for, and the cause of, that exaltation and that preeminence! Peace and Grace!

Post edited by: barry, at: 2007/04/16 12:12