Cmon, let\'s not start that again. lol I could say since you believe God caused you to trust Jesus, that means you havent willfully done it, so you are still in your sins. I believe we have to choose to believe when we hear the Gospel and that God draws us to Jesus, but He doesn\'t make us accept Him. But let\'s talk about Romans 8 and 9 because I want to see if you can show me why you see what you see. The word \"if\" means on the condition of. So you believe that Romans 8 is saying that a Christian will always walk after the Spirit? So do you believe Christians sin? If you believe they sin, are you saying that a Christian is still walking in the Spirit even when they walk in sin? When you read Romans 8:13 Romans 8:13 [color=#0000FF]13For [color=#0000FF]if [u]you[/u] live after the flesh, ye shall die[/color]: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. [/color] Who\'s he talking about when he says \"you\" in verse 13? Everyone except Christians? To me it seems very clear that he is still talking to the Christians because a sinner cant obey the second half of the verse. What is the evidence that a person is truly believes the Gospel? Are saying it only takes a mental belief? I believe the Bible teaches that \"having faith\" is way more than a mental assention: Hebrews 3: [color=#800080]12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, [u][b]if we hold the beginning of our confidence[/b][/u] stedfast unto the end;[/color] And also: James 2: [color=#008000]21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 [b]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, [u]and by works was faith made perfect[/u][/b]? [/color] So, yes its primarily by faith, but our works make our faith perfect. If we have no works then it means our faith has died and dead faith wont save anyone. Do I still sound \"unsaved\" to you?