[b]MisterNathan wrote:[/b] [quote]And honestly, out of all the forumers, I can only think of three that adhere to Calvinism.[/quote] Add another too that now :P I am a strong believer in reformed theology, especially when it comes to salvation, which is labeled as Calvinism. I believe that they all stem from total depravity which the bible is strong on (Jeremiah 17:9, Romans 8:7, Isaiah 64:6 to name a few) I think that if total depravity is not true then we would not need the atonement of Christ to cover our sin since we could, theoretically, be perfect and sinless by ourselves so Christs death would be useless. Because we can't do good and what we perceive to be good is unclean (Isaiah 64:6) how could be possible choose God. How could we possible do something good by choose God and by choosing God and us taking that initial step then it means at the end of the day then it is glory of ours that we are saved, even though God is the one that saved us, it makes it out that we did something to earn that salvation which can't be earnt (Ephesians 2:8-9) Ephesians 2:9 also says that it is set in such a way that no one can boast about it. If salvation is not done by works then how can we choose God? Us choosing God is a deed of ours, which the bible says can't be done. Also another thing on election is that many people see it as God keeping people out of heaven but that is not true, due to our fall and our sinfulness we are all running to hell and election is God bringing people from hell "Election isn't keeping people out of heaven that would otherwise not be there but it keeps a multitude of people out of hell that would otherwise be there" - C.J. Mahany, Sovereign Grace If you are skeptical on election I would strongly recommend the sermon that quote is from, It is on sermonindex but I don't know if I am allowed to post links here. EDIT: Here is the link for the sermon I am referring to. http://media.sermonindex.net/22/SID22312.mp3