[b]SmilinBob wrote:[/b] [quote]Seems ridiculus that a murderer can find Jesus in prison just befor he dies and go to heaven.[/quote] I am trying to understand why people have such a problem with someone that is close to death, but not dead, still being able to fall under the grace of God... I have a few question: How long after you repented, and accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, and asked Him to be Lord in your life, did He actually "save" you? I mean, after you repented, how long was it after you were saved, that you would have gone to Heaven if you died? Another thing... to say that a murder on death row does not deserve salvation, infers that "you" deserve it more than that murderer... NO ONE DESERVES salvation (period). Jesus demonstrated on the cross that a death bed confession is suffice... if the heart is right... Another thing that CAN BE infered from saying that a murderer should not be saved at the last second is that you are upset because he got to enjoy life, and do whatever he wanted to do, and we as Christians suffer.... I think the exact opposite is true. The poor guy had to live his entire life, not knowing God, not having any hope in any situation, he had to live a miserable life of sin, and squandered his days on earth away. We are the lucky ones! A murderer that gets saved in the last few moments of his life is not lucky! He missed out on a great life! To say that he does not deserve salvation CAN BE taken as to say, "We "good" Christians suffer through life having to abide by all the rules of Scripture, and this murderer didn't, so he shouldn't be saved." I am not sure that any of these are even close to what the arguments are that you are thinking of. If not, please enlighten me as to why the murder would not be saved, and why it is that when Jesus Christ offered salvation to the thief on the cross, why that was rediculous? -Matt

[b]Ephesians 2:8[/b] [i]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[/i] [b]John 3:16[/b] [i]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.[/i] So what is it exactly that's in question? ;)

It seems ridiculus becuase a terrible person can go to heaven. Would I forgive someone? It depends what they did, some things are unforgivable, when an adult commits a crime like rape or murder they know it is wrong. They do not learn it is wrong after the act, I could not forgive someone for something like that. Do I deserve to get into heaven more than a murderer? I don't know, I don't even think you can prove heaven exists, I guess I live without god. I would not say that a life without god is a misserable life full of sin(I am sure the bible disagrees with this but you can't know if the bible is right, you can think it is but you can't know it is). Some people do not need a god to give them hope.

The problem with you is: You are selfish. All you think about is you, you, you. I will tell you first hand- If a man murdered my family, all of them, and was brought to trial... I would look him in the eyes and tell him that I love him and that I forgave him. That is one of the most extreme things we can do, EVER. But Jesus commands us... Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself. Also Bob, Christianity is about submission, like I said... God only sees black and white. In the Bible God says that His ways are higher than our ways. So it doesnt matter whatever you think is right or wrong(because our flesh and blood is ALWAYS wrong), God is always right.. He knows what's best, and nothing less.

[b]Farside wrote:[/b] [quote]The problem with you is: You are selfish. All you think about is you, you, you. [/quote] Hey folks.... here is the deal, nad this is the only warning. The purpose of these forums is to debate, to have good "Christian" dialogue. There are to be no personal attacks! There is a difference between challenging someones theology, and out right saying "You are selfish...etc..." If you say, "If you consider yourself more deserving than another, within the scope of salvation, it is a selfish act." That is allowed. It now up to the individual to determine for him /herself, whether or not they are selfish... The statement i just used is not judging a specific person, or publically attacking that individual person. The statement I used can be applied to many people who read the statement, and may or may not challenge them to consider their own actions. So... having said all of that. Any "Direct personal attacks" by users in here will be deleted. -Thanks -Matt

I have have quite a few friends who are agnostics, and I believe that if they do not come to know the Lord before they die, then they will not go to Heaven. I say that 'cause it says in the Bible (I forgot where, but I know it's in there): "No one can get to the Father excpet through me." That means that no one can get into Heaven unless they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Agnostics (people who do not deny that there is a God like atheists do, but they don't accept Jesus as Lord either) do not have that relationship with Jesus Christ, so therefore, yes, they would go to Hell when they died, unless they accepted Jesus before that. You can't mess with God's Word.