Is the bible the 100% word of God? or does it simply contain some of Gods words? please when you post, put some evidence down. at the very least, present a good scripture or theory. i wont want to see people bashing other people for not having the same view. before we start i want to wipe out some the cheesy over used verses like Rev 22 and II Tim 3:16. these verses DO NOT reference the Bible. they reference the OT writings. if you dont belief me then look them up in greek. remember at the time the NT books were writen, the bible was not a concept. i think this will be a fun debate. i can think of some interesting facts right now that go in favor or against this belief. have it friends.... Justin

So how come the first post on the Debate board says "1. Scripture is Truth This means that you are allowed to discuss interpretations of Scripture, but there are no comments allowed such as, “Scripture is False” “Scripture is not the Word of God.” Etc…"? Does this not apply to you or are you the "real" admin here?

Post edited by: Incognito, at: 2007/11/01 23:55

I don't see any blaspheme in Justin's post, so I am not sure why you would accuse him of such. However, having said that... Justin can moderate his own topic, and if he chooses to be lienient for the sake of this discussion, I don't see why you would complain. Frankly I thought that everyone would be happy, and over-joyed that an admin is finally willing to debate this. Also, Justin can pretty much do whatever he wants... LOL! :woohoo: Have Fun! -Matt PS - I am not sure Justin knows what can of worms he just opened, but maybe it is time to have this discussion.

[b]alphajustin wrote:[/b] [quote]before we start i want to wipe out some the cheesy over used verses like Rev 22 and II Tim 3:16.[/quote] First of all, don't call Scripture "cheesy." It really doesn't contribute anything to the discussion and will likely make people mad at you. And in light of one of the verses you "wiped out" (II Tim 3:16), I'm not sure that Scripture can be overused. [b]II Timothy 3:16-17[/b] (ESV) [color=#0000ff]All Scripture is breathed out by God and [u]profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.[/u][/color] *emphasis mine* [quote]these verses DO NOT reference the Bible. they reference the OT writings. if you dont belief me then look them up in greek. remember at the time the NT books were writen, the bible was not a concept. [/quote] One of the things you have to remember is that while man understands things through a linear (or chronological) view of time, God exists outside of time, He transcends it. So from a human (linear) perspective, the NT hadn't been written and the bible wasn't a concept, but God on the other hand, had already planned for there to be a NT and a Bible. It is limiting God to our level to say that couldn't have "breathed out" (as the ESV words it) the NT and the entire Bible before humans had the idea for them. That being said the verses (II Timothy 3:16 and Revelation 22) provide enough Biblical support for us to say that the Bible is 100% the word of God.

[b]Silent_K wrote:[/b] [quote]That being said the verses (II Timothy 3:16 and Revelation 22) provide enough Biblical support for us to say that the Bible is 100% the word of God.[/quote] PLUS, Paul DID consider his writings to be scripture so 2 Timothy 3:16 would at least include his writings!

[color=#FF0000]No, I don't think it's 100% correct. I think that the really important message behind the Bible, Jesus and what he taught, got through--and that that is really the main thing we should get out of it.[/color]

[b]senorviva wrote:[/b] [quote][color=#FF0000]No, I don't think it's 100% correct. I think that the really important message behind the Bible, Jesus and what he taught, got through--and that that is really the main thing we should get out of it.[/color][/quote] Arguably the whole Bible is really about Jesus.

[b]Silent_K wrote:[/b] [quote][b]alphajustin wrote:[/b] [quote]before we start i want to wipe out some the cheesy over used verses like Rev 22 and II Tim 3:16.[/quote] First of all, don't call Scripture "cheesy." It really doesn't contribute anything to the discussion and will likely make people mad at you. And in light of one of the verses you "wiped out" (II Tim 3:16), I'm not sure that Scripture can be overused. [b]II Timothy 3:16-17[/b] (ESV) [color=#0000ff]All Scripture is breathed out by God and [u]profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.[/u][/color] *emphasis mine* [quote]these verses DO NOT reference the Bible. they reference the OT writings. if you dont belief me then look them up in greek. remember at the time the NT books were writen, the bible was not a concept. [/quote] One of the things you have to remember is that while man understands things through a linear (or chronological) view of time, God exists outside of time, He transcends it. So from a human (linear) perspective, the NT hadn't been written and the bible wasn't a concept, but God on the other hand, had already planned for there to be a NT and a Bible. It is limiting God to our level to say that couldn't have "breathed out" (as the ESV words it) the NT and the entire Bible before humans had the idea for them. That being said the verses (II Timothy 3:16 and Revelation 22) provide enough Biblical support for us to say that the Bible is 100% the word of God.[/quote] this is a nice theory but doesnt provide much evidence or reasoning. just because God can do something doesnt mean he will or did do it. yes God have the ability to be outside of time, but that doesnt mean he instructed the authors of the books in our bible write down verses that reference the future. in fact, if the NT writers were that in tune with Gods plans, then they would have noted in their writings that God is speaking prophetically.

[b]alphajustin wrote:[/b] [quote][b]Silent_K wrote:[/b] [quote][b]alphajustin wrote:[/b] [quote]before we start i want to wipe out some the cheesy over used verses like Rev 22 and II Tim 3:16.[/quote] First of all, don't call Scripture "cheesy." It really doesn't contribute anything to the discussion and will likely make people mad at you. And in light of one of the verses you "wiped out" (II Tim 3:16), I'm not sure that Scripture can be overused. [b]II Timothy 3:16-17[/b] (ESV) [color=#0000ff]All Scripture is breathed out by God and [u]profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.[/u][/color] *emphasis mine* [quote]these verses DO NOT reference the Bible. they reference the OT writings. if you dont belief me then look them up in greek. remember at the time the NT books were writen, the bible was not a concept. [/quote] One of the things you have to remember is that while man understands things through a linear (or chronological) view of time, God exists outside of time, He transcends it. So from a human (linear) perspective, the NT hadn't been written and the bible wasn't a concept, but God on the other hand, had already planned for there to be a NT and a Bible. It is limiting God to our level to say that couldn't have "breathed out" (as the ESV words it) the NT and the entire Bible before humans had the idea for them. That being said the verses (II Timothy 3:16 and Revelation 22) provide enough Biblical support for us to say that the Bible is 100% the word of God.[/quote] this is a nice theory but doesnt provide much evidence or reasoning. just because God can do something doesnt mean he will or did do it. yes God have the ability to be outside of time, but that doesnt mean he instructed the authors of the books in our bible write down verses that reference the future. in fact, if the NT writers were that in tune with Gods plans, then they would have noted in their writings that God is speaking prophetically.[/quote] Well, actually what I meant was since God transcends time, He could have "breathed out" parts of Scripture that in man's sense of time had not yet been written. The authors of the books could have written down that all Scripture is "breathed out" only knowing about the Scripture that they had at the time, but because God is not bound there sense of time, the statement could be just as true for books written after the statement.

[b]Silent_K wrote:[/b] [quote][b]alphajustin wrote:[/b] [quote][b]Silent_K wrote:[/b] [quote][b]alphajustin wrote:[/b] [quote]before we start i want to wipe out some the cheesy over used verses like Rev 22 and II Tim 3:16.[/quote] First of all, don't call Scripture "cheesy." It really doesn't contribute anything to the discussion and will likely make people mad at you. And in light of one of the verses you "wiped out" (II Tim 3:16), I'm not sure that Scripture can be overused. [b]II Timothy 3:16-17[/b] (ESV) [color=#0000ff]All Scripture is breathed out by God and [u]profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.[/u][/color] *emphasis mine* [quote]these verses DO NOT reference the Bible. they reference the OT writings. if you dont belief me then look them up in greek. remember at the time the NT books were writen, the bible was not a concept. [/quote] One of the things you have to remember is that while man understands things through a linear (or chronological) view of time, God exists outside of time, He transcends it. So from a human (linear) perspective, the NT hadn't been written and the bible wasn't a concept, but God on the other hand, had already planned for there to be a NT and a Bible. It is limiting God to our level to say that couldn't have "breathed out" (as the ESV words it) the NT and the entire Bible before humans had the idea for them. That being said the verses (II Timothy 3:16 and Revelation 22) provide enough Biblical support for us to say that the Bible is 100% the word of God.[/quote] this is a nice theory but doesnt provide much evidence or reasoning. just because God can do something doesnt mean he will or did do it. yes God have the ability to be outside of time, but that doesnt mean he instructed the authors of the books in our bible write down verses that reference the future. in fact, if the NT writers were that in tune with Gods plans, then they would have noted in their writings that God is speaking prophetically.[/quote] Well, actually what I meant was since God transcends time, He could have "breathed out" parts of Scripture that in man's sense of time had not yet been written. The authors of the books could have written down that all Scripture is "breathed out" only knowing about the Scripture that they had at the time, but because God is not bound there sense of time, the statement could be just as true for books written after the statement.[/quote] but the variable we are discussing is "What is scripture"? we know that the bible contains scriptures, but can we prove the Bible is 100% scripture? another question .....if God had certain verses written by men so that later generations could have a better understanding then, does that mean the generations around the time of the original writings were deprived of Gods word? another note.....if God DID in fact have the authors write specific things that would only make 100% clarity in the future then how can we know what is meant for then, and what was meant for now?