The other thread has a life of its own. I see no danger as a result of my skepticism of Paul. For the sake of clarity, for those who've not been here long, I do respect him, and I very much like some of his teachings. I do not consider him to be a prophet. I see no danger because of the uniformity of scripture. I do not draw a hard line between the Tanakh(OT) and the New Testament. It is the same Word of G-d, repeated as ALL the prophets repeated the same message from Torah, calling sinners and backsliders to repentence. Therefore, in my worldview, one of two things is true- Either Paul IS speaking the same Word of G-d, in which case I'll get the same messages with or without him. OR He is teaching a different doctrine than Torah, the prophets and Messiah taught, in which case he is a false prophet. Here's your chance to show me what crucial doctrines I couldn't find anywhere else, and explain why it is that these doctrines weren't given before, if they are so crucial.

[b]MattBob_SquarePants wrote:[/b] [quote]The other thread has a life of its own. I see no danger as a result of my skepticism of Paul. For the sake of clarity, for those who've not been here long, I do respect him, and I very much like some of his teachings. I do not consider him to be a prophet. I see no danger because of the uniformity of scripture. I do not draw a hard line between the Tanakh(OT) and the New Testament. It is the same Word of G-d, repeated as ALL the prophets repeated the same message from Torah, calling sinners and backsliders to repentence. Therefore, in my worldview, one of two things is true- Either Paul IS speaking the same Word of G-d, in which case I'll get the same messages with or without him. OR He is teaching a different doctrine than Torah, the prophets and Messiah taught, in which case he is a false prophet. Here's your chance to show me what crucial doctrines I couldn't find anywhere else, and explain why it is that these doctrines weren't given before, if they are so crucial.[/quote] I just wanted to point out that Paul is an apostle. He's not a prophet. That makes a bit of difference in job and purpose for his ministry. So he could be a false apostle if you were to phrase it that way. But I believe Paul is the only one who speaks about those in his letters. Just a clarification.

[b]maul93461 wrote:[/b] [quote] I just wanted to point out that Paul is an apostle. He's not a prophet. That makes a bit of difference in job and purpose for his ministry. So he could be a false apostle if you were to phrase it that way. But I believe Paul is the only one who speaks about those in his letters. Just a clarification.[/quote] Well, I hate to derail a thread so quick, but this is pretty easy to address. Perhaps, brother Dimitri, you would care to name the TWELVE apostles mentioned in Revelations 21:14?

[b]MattBob_SquarePants wrote:[/b] [quote][b]maul93461 wrote:[/b] [quote] I just wanted to point out that Paul is an apostle. He's not a prophet. That makes a bit of difference in job and purpose for his ministry. So he could be a false apostle if you were to phrase it that way. But I believe Paul is the only one who speaks about those in his letters. Just a clarification.[/quote] Well, I hate to derail a thread so quick, but this is pretty easy to address. Perhaps, brother Dimitri, you would care to name the TWELVE apostles mentioned in Revelations 21:14?[/quote] 1.Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. - 1 Corinthians 15: 1-11 Even Paul points out the twelve in this scripture (verse 5). The original twelve who began the church after Jesus left. Minus Judas Iscariot and adding Matthias. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him. -Matthew 10: 2-4 But if you notice above Paul writes that the twelve see him then eventually in verse 7 he writes that "all the apostles" see him. I don't believe at all he is only speaking about the twelve. And lastly him of course. But for the sake of Scripture their are more apostles then 12 according to Paul, but in Revelation only the first 12 get their names put in stone. Notice it says "Apostles of the Lamb" as well. Paul didn't know Jesus until that moment on the road. But the 12 did. Does that shake my belief in Paul's writing? Not at all. Even Paul says that he is the least of the apostles.