Does it say anywhere in the bible that bible alone is the sole authority? The first 400 years of the church it didn't have a bible and only relied mostly on oral tradition handed down since the apostles to the authority of the church. The problem that all protestant churches point out is that anyone except them add on to what the bible says.In actuality they also add on to it by intrepeting the bible.Listen to your pastors at church when they do a sermon.They passge of scripture then say this what Paul meant or what Peter meant by saying this.In so he just added on to scriptures and made himself authority of scripture. We can conclude that there needs to be human interpretation of scripture.If you have to many intepretations what does this do it leads to chaos and division.Does Christ want division in his church,I think not.Thats why he started his church and appointed Peter as his first vicar and the apostalic succession to be the ones to guard and uphold the teachings with the Holy Spirit which is infallible) to guide them ,and warns of many false doctrines that will go against the authority he as appointed. your thoughts

Anyway you slice or dice it,there is no evidence scripture or after in writings fathers of the church that scriptures[bible] is the only authority,its combination of both of scripture/oral tradition and apostalic succession having authority to interprete.

[b]Chantillon wrote:[/b] [quote]Anyway you slice or dice it,there is no evidence scripture or after in writings fathers of the church that scriptures[bible] is the only authority,its combination of both of scripture/oral tradition and apostalic succession having authority to interprete.[/quote] again, of course there is no evidence in scripture that the Bible is the only authority becuase the Bible hadnt been compiled yet.... and they didnt know that there was going to be one... it was mostly letters and such But, we can gather from scripture that the Holy Spirit and Jesus should be our only resources for spiritual authority.... this is where we have a bit of a problem in this debate here.... i believe that we need to judge everything that these "authorities" that we have placed in the church by the Bible because that is the most direct look into the will and mind of God that we can possibly have.... again, I believe that humans make mistakes and I would not take everything that a pope or bishop or anyone says about that Bible at face value because it might not be right.... weigh it against the Bible.... and because many popes have made scriptual errors in the past, I do not follow them... and I dont believe that the idea of one person leading the religion outside of Jesus Christ is a Biblical idea

[b]DHfan wrote:[/b] [quote][b]Chantillon wrote:[/b] [quote]Anyway you slice or dice it,there is no evidence scripture or after in writings fathers of the church that scriptures[bible] is the only authority,its combination of both of scripture/oral tradition and apostalic succession having authority to interprete.[/quote] [b]again, of course there is no evidence in scripture that the Bible is the only authority becuase the Bible hadnt been compiled yet.... and they didnt know that there was going to be one... it was mostly letters and such[/b] Well that defeats the idea Sola Scpitura,since it isn't commanded in the bible.It was an invention of men and popularised by Martin Luther.It isn't biblical.Whats biblical is that scriptures itself is an authority but no where does say its the sole authority. You look at the history of Israel,Judges,Kings,Priests,Prophets were all authorities on the word of God,the lay people had to listen to what they had to say. [b]But, we can gather from scripture that the Holy Spirit and Jesus should be our only resources for spiritual authority.... this is where we have a bit of a problem in this debate here.... i believe that we need to judge everything that these "authorities" that we have placed in the church by the Bible because that is the most direct look into the will and mind of God that we can possibly have.... again, I believe that humans make mistakes and I would not take everything that a pope or bishop or anyone says about that Bible at face value because it might not be right.... weigh it against the Bible.... and because many popes have made scriptual errors in the past, I do not follow them... and I dont believe that the idea of one person leading the religion outside of Jesus Christ is a Biblical idea[/b] I've already provided scriptural proof of all you mentioned.You haven't replied to that. And I've mentioned over and over again Christ is leader of the church.Were going around a circular debate here. I'm really tired of repeating myself.Wish people would read posts for giving rebutles. You know the church is the body of Christ,and all the parts of this body is needed for the whole body to function proparly.The head is Christ,without the head nothing works ect...As christians we all have are functions that we are called for,we couldn't all be or do the same thing and we cannot severe a part of the body,both cases the body which is the church wouldn't function proparly Again repeating myself popes are human and are sinners like the rest of us,but concerning dogma on salvation they never made any mistakes.Why that is you ask,because Christ promised the Holy Spirit and was takling to the apostles when he said do not worry what you hall do or say you will have the Holy Spirit to guide you until I return.Now Jesus hasn't returned yet ....you do math read my other posts on this.I'm not going to repeat everything.[/quote]

[b]DHfan wrote:[/b] [quote][b]Chantillon wrote:[/b] [quote]Anyway you slice or dice it,there is no evidence scripture or after in writings fathers of the church that scriptures[bible] is the only authority,its combination of both of scripture/oral tradition and apostalic succession having authority to interprete.[/quote] [b]again, of course there is no evidence in scripture that the Bible is the only authority becuase the Bible hadnt been compiled yet.... and they didnt know that there was going to be one... it was mostly letters and such[/b] Well that defeats the idea Sola Scpitura,since it isn't commanded in the bible.It was an invention of men and popularised by Martin Luther.It isn't biblical.Whats biblical is that scriptures itself is an authority but no where does say its the sole authority. You look at the history of Israel,Judges,Kings,Priests,Prophets were all authorities on the word of God,the lay people had to listen to what they had to say. [b]But, we can gather from scripture that the Holy Spirit and Jesus should be our only resources for spiritual authority.... this is where we have a bit of a problem in this debate here.... i believe that we need to judge everything that these "authorities" that we have placed in the church by the Bible because that is the most direct look into the will and mind of God that we can possibly have.... again, I believe that humans make mistakes and I would not take everything that a pope or bishop or anyone says about that Bible at face value because it might not be right.... weigh it against the Bible.... and because many popes have made scriptual errors in the past, I do not follow them... and I dont believe that the idea of one person leading the religion outside of Jesus Christ is a Biblical idea[/b] I've already provided scriptural proof of all you mentioned.You haven't replied to that. And I've mentioned over and over again Christ is leader of the church.Were going around a circular debate here. I'm really tired of repeating myself.Wish people would read posts for giving rebutles. You know the church is the body of Christ,and all the parts of this body is needed for the whole body to function proparly.The head is Christ,without the head nothing works ect...As christians we all have are functions that we are called for,we couldn't all be or do the same thing and we cannot severe a part of the body,both cases the body which is the church wouldn't function proparly Again repeating myself popes are human and are sinners like the rest of us,but concerning dogma on salvation they never made any mistakes.Why that is you ask,because Christ promised the Holy Spirit and was takling to the apostles when he said do not worry what you hall do or say you will have the Holy Spirit to guide you until I return.Now Jesus hasn't returned yet ....you do math read my other posts on this.I'm not going to repeat everything.[/quote]

[b]Chantillon wrote:[/b] [quote] We can conclude that there needs to be human interpretation of scripture. [/quote] "Do not interpretations belong to God?" .... Genesis 40:8 (KJV) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" ... 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)

Okay, here's my conclusion, and I'm going to use a few scriptures to back it up (ironic considering the subject of debate lol). Okay, we know that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life(John 14:16). So, we can assume anything that comes from the Truth is, in fact, truth, correct? We know from 2 Timothy 3:16 that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, which this phrase here comes from the Greek word "theopneutos" which means "God-breathed." So, scripture come from God, and anything from God is truth. Okay, now that we've established that it's truth, we can from this assume that anything contradicting scripture is not truth. Therefore, there are "words" of God(prophecy, revelations, etcetera), and if any of the "words" of God contradict the "Word" of God, they are untrue. Therefore, we can come by wisdom outside of scripture, but these little nuggets of wisdom can not contradict the Word. From this we can conclude that scripture is the sole authority, as it is the Word of God, divinely inspired.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[a] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. 1 Corinthians 11:2 2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,[a] just as I passed them on to you. But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us" (2 Thessalonians 3:6). Mark 13:11 Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit. Luke 12:12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say." Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 1 Thessalonians 1:6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 1:5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake 1 Thessalonians 4:8 Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 2 Timothy 1:14 Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will 1 Peter 1:12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things